MMA Chronicles June 2021

Dave Fish The King Fish Of MMA Management

Dave has always been known as being a hands on manager in MMA both with guiding his clients careers to literally getting down on the ground and rolling.

As Mixed Martial Arts has exploded into popularity the need for representation and management is at an all-time high. With so many agencies out there which one is right one and how do you know which group will be the right fit for you? Dave Fish is someone who has always been fighting for his clients whether it be as a lawyer in New York State, as an independent agent in MMA & now working with one of the biggest agencies in combat sports, Paradigm Sports, with illustrious clients such as Conor McGregor & Manny Pacquiao. I spoke with Dave on how he got into MMA management, the difference in working for himself and working for a big company like Paradigm Sports and his thoughts on getting an MMA Fighters union.

D ave on always being a fan of combat sports: “While I have been involved in combat sports for a very long time. I didn’t really come to it from a traditional way that most people do. I started wrestling in College. I did not wrestle in High School or anywhere else as being from New York there were really limited opportunities. The way I got into it was going to college (SUNY Albany). I didn’t know a lot but I knew there was a good wrestling team and a very well known coach there; Coach Joe DeMeo who has sadly since passed away. I remember having the contact info and nervously calling Coach DeMeo. I remember calling and saying I’m Dave Fish I’m coming to SUNY Albany I’m really into wrestling and I was wondering if I could come out for the team? Coach DeMeo replied back and said I really appreciate the call but this isn’t how this works. I have a great recruiting class coming in we don’t teach people how to wrestle in college. My first week at Albany I stumbled on some people who were on the team. I told them my story and the told me the first day was this day and why don’t you come on out. I thought they were kidding but I decided to do that. I remember going to the wrestling room and seeing everyone. What they do on first day is come down to a classroom the coach will come down to the class & everyone will introduce themselves. For whatever reason I was the last guy who got up and spoke I said my name is Dave Fish I’ve never wrestled before but if you give me the chance I won’t quit. I remember the coach saying I talked to you over the summer I told you we don’t do that we don’t teach people to wrestle. I remember leaving feeling dejected but some of the seniors or captains convinced the equipment manager to give me a lock, a pair of shoes and my wrestling gear.

Dave’s passion for amateur wrestling has been a big help with him in recruiting talent: “You see now there is a track record of collegiate wrestling being one of the best bases for long term success in MMA. Look at most of the champions and the majority of the top ten in Bellator, UFC or even regional promotion promotions. A large percentage are ex-wrestlers”

Dave has always been know as being a hands on manager in MMA both with guiding his clients careers to literally getting down on the ground and rolling. Dave’s ability to be hands on helped him go from being a lawyer to an MMA manager “I started training MMA a little bit later in in life maybe 12 to 13 years ago, before Paradigm was even around. My training parners and a couple of the coaches said Dave we could use your help as we’ve got contracts that aren’t good and we aren’t really sure what we are doing. At the time there were very few competent managers. 10-12 years ago was like the stone ages. This was new to me as I had experience in employment law & trial work. This was new but I started doing it a lot because I care about these people and seeing success and what started as an informal side job became more formal and part of my career as I built a combat sports management to my practice and it took off.

The thing that I love so much is that I’ve worked with athletes from their first amateur fight through to being top ten in the UFC. As the sport has grown so has the language in the contracts and what makes a ‘good contract’ versus a ‘bad contract.’ It all comes down to what your leverage is and right now certainly without a union the promotions have the leverage. There are some unicorns & exceptions. But the promotions have the economic leverage and the power. What has changed over the last 10 years is the professionalism. I saw athletes managed by “MMA Managers” who couldn’t even read a contract.

The other thing that I have seen a lot is both troubling on the athlete and the coaching side. There are often divisions and power struggles often between coach and the managers. Coaches don’t want to deal with managers. Then there are some managers who seem to be hesitant to work with the coaches which is a huge mistake. One of the things I like to do when I’m introduced to an athlete is I want to meet their coaches. I want their coaches to know I’m here for them too as far as them serving my client and I want it to be a collaborative effort. I want them to know that I’m not here to assert some power I want us to build a team.”

"At the time there were very few competent managers. 10-12 years ago was like the stone ages. This was new to me as I had experience in employment law & trial work."

After the team aspect is built with athlete coach & manager Dave’s goal is to look after the client: “That’s the job. The job is to make sure that client achieves their goals and that they are happy and healthy. The hope is that the athlete takes as little damage as possible. Then when your athletic career is ending and your are ready to hang up the gloves you have options.”

One of the biggest discussions in MMA over the last decade has revolved around the development of a Union in MMA. Dave gave his perspective on a Union and how it would affect his job: “When you have athletes that are unionized it changes the landscape. As you look at the NFL there is a guarantee that percentage of their revenue goes to the players. That would be the first thing that the athletes are paid what they deserve. Most of the athletes in MMA deserve to be paid 10x what they are paid. That sounds crazy to say but when you look at what these athletes are making in combat sports compared to the other sports it’s far from crazy to say they deserve 10x the amount. If you look at the top 10 paid people in other industries whether in tech in sales in entertainment or pharmaceuticals it’s astronomical. But when people are asked to understand what a top 10 basketball player in the world make what they make people act like they are offended. I think MMA fighters are working harder than or as hard as anybody else. If you are a top ten fighter in your division in the world I think you justify making a lot of money.

The challenge though is it really would take the majority of the rosters including the superstars to join together because that’s how you create leverage. It’s easier said than done and it’s easier to say on the outside. A fighters career is generally short. ‘Am I as an athlete willing to give up money I can make now to buy a home, to get my kids what they need to succeed in life or the future athletes?’ But I get athlete saying these are my earning times and I’m gonna lose all that for people I don’t know? So I get the hesitancy of a lot of these athletes. I’d love it to happen but I understand it’s tough to make a sacrifice immediately when you may not see the returns yourself.”

Dave on the change from working as a solo MMA Manager to working for one of the top agencies in MMA - Paradigm Sports: “I’m coming from running my own shop where whatever I feel is right I do. I really appreciate the way we work collaberativly. Sometimes we see somebody and we all get an amazing impression immediately. I may see an athlete and feel nothing but others see them and become completely enamored. The lens of different people and the perspectives of different people can be extrememly valuable. We challenge ourselves. The reason I like working with the group is we make better decisions. One of the things I love about Paradigm is that we are very selective with who we bring on. Our staff to client ratio is amazing. I thought I was giving amazing service when I was on my own but now having this amazing team around me helps make the decisions more layered, more thoughtful and we end up just bringing up more quality athletes and people”

Dave has always been a fan of combat sports. His experience within law and MMA has given him a deeper understanding of what it is to be a manager in the MMA field. His perspectives about unions in the MMA and the prospect that MMA fighters should get paid more for the level of effort and value they provide to the sport.

Dave on how he joined Paradigm: “It was kind of a weird winding road. It was initially these opening discussions, they were looking at what I was doing and I of course could not help look at what they were doing. I had some intial discussions with Tim Simpson who leads the Paradigm MMA practice. I flew out to their offices and we decided to work together. I would bring some of my legal skills and my experience with scouting and working with MMA athletes. At the beginning we were both dipping our toe in the water to see if this makes sense. For [Paradigm] staff size they were still small. I had been on my own for such a long time that it was a big transition to join a company. Are they going to have the same moral compass as me? Are they going to be in line with the way I approach the business? And to my great pleasure it’s been fantastic. They are terrific people. They genuinely care about the athletes. I’m learning so much from them. Paradigm puts on the biggest events in MMA and they are a leader in cutting edge ideas. They are bringing in sports with entertainment. The funny thing is before I joined them I would have never imagined this. We don’t always make the right decisions but if you don’t take risks you are never going to have success in life.”

Dave on how he scouts talent: “I love this part of the job. I’m a fanatic researcher. To me it is enjoyable to be on the internet looking at film of regional promotions most people have never heard of. It’s no secret that at the beginning I’m looking for talent. I’m looking for people who are going to win fights. At the end of the day it’s about winning fights. That’s what creates leverage in negotiation, that’s what creates opportunity to achieve your goal and make money. This is a career for these people and like any of us part of our career is making sure we can sustain ourselves pay our bills and make money. I’m looking for people that are talented and have good records. You don’t typically pick up the 5-5 athlete. The major promotions are looking for the 8-0, the 10-0 with 8 finishes. Not only how successful they are record wise but how are they finishing their opponents? What are their opponents records like? Records of opponents is a very big deal to me. Once I’m watching somebody I’m impressed with their skill and their record it’s at that point I want to talk to somebody. Above all else I want to know that I like you. You want to avoid having to spend 80% on that one difficult person. The easiest way to avoid that is to not bring that on. Lastly the intangibles all matter too. If the person has a great personality. If they know how to use social media in a very positive way. If they are involved in charitable causes. All that stuff is meaningful, it matters to me and adds to my desire to bring someone on.”

"Once I’m watching somebody I’m impressed with their skill and their record it’s at that point I want to talk to somebody. Above all else I want to know that I like you. You want to avoid having to spend 80% on that one difficult person."

Dave on working with a fighter on leading up to an event/event day: “The athlete should be focused on their family, friends, training, nutrition and sleep. Everything else a good manager takes off that athlete’s shoulders. All of the logistics of fight week, getting their medicals done, getting paperwork done, organizing their corners flights, helping with social media, helping getting sponsorship money. These are things you can take off an athletes mind and they can focus on their fight process they are going to have the best chance of being successful and you are helping them in their overall process. It’s sort of anything and everything. Most of all it’s about being a problem solver. That’s what I’ve tried to do as being an attorney. My job as an attorney which is similar to my job as an agent is being a problem solver. If an athlete or client can look to me when there is a problem and they can say I know Dave’s got my back I know Paradigm’s got my back. That’s everything that’s what we try to do.” One of those forms of problems Dave likes to solve is helping his athletes cut weight in the sauna. “It goes back to my wrestling days you know I sort of have an informal PHD in making weight.”

Jason Hagholm

BTC Fight Sports Broadcaster

Dave Fish The King Fish Of MMA Management

Dave has always been known as being a hands on manager in MMA both with guiding his clients careers to literally getting down on the ground and rolling.

Purchase Physical Copies Of The MMA Chronicles

"At the time there were very few competent managers. 10-12 years ago was like the stone ages. This was new to me as I had experience in employment law & trial work."

"Once I’m watching somebody I’m impressed with their skill and their record it’s at that point I want to talk to somebody. Above all else I want to know that I like you. You want to avoid having to spend 80% on that one difficult person."

Purchase Physical Copies Of The MMA Chronicles